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What should the next prize be?
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Total votes : 24
 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 6th, '17, 04:41    
Sunlight

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Okay. As long as she apologizes.

I mean, on one hand, it's easier to repay your bail than to repay the years you've spent in penitentiary, but I would and do feel squeamish about people who've murdered roaming free. I hope the bail was exorbitantly high to lower the possibility of making it.

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 6th, '17, 17:33    
Moi

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It was really high.

You don't get arrested for murder on a whim.
They need some form of evidence to arrest you.
So there must be some kind of evidence stating he did kill someone.
You can't take someone in just because you don't like their face or their job title.
Which also sucks when you know someone did something, but can't prove it.
Like that man that killed his wife and killed his kids and himself.
The cops said they knew he'd hurt the kids, but by law, had to give them to him.
It's completely trusting and ignorant to just assume someone is innocent and get pissed when people say they deserve prison.
And I've had several loved ones get arrested and go to prison or avoided serving time when they weren't guilty.
You don't just let someone accused of murder run around free.

I've been into criminology and have seen billions of stories and learned all kinds of things.
So I'm not uneducated and ignorant in this aspect.
I often try to think "What if it was me?" but in some cases, it doesn't work.
He didn't get arrested for smoking weed or stealing money - he was arrested for cold-blooded murder.

There's tons of stories where people were let go and committed the same crime again and got sent back.
There's been serial killers released and praised.
There's been children that committed horrific murders and got out at the age of 25 and had lifetime anonymity.
There's been murderers that were set free and murdered again.
It's not like you let them go and they kill again and you're like "You little rascal, get back in here xD"
PEOPLE DIE. Loved ones don't have them anymore and will never see them again.
Not only is it a threat to others, but it's a spit in the face to the victim and the victim's loved ones.

Edit: I rewatched the video and he was charged with murdering 5 people.

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 7th, '17, 03:40    
Sunlight

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Good.

Well, there have been times when people were arrested for murder and it was found out that it was someone else all along. There was even a case where DNA evidence exonerated someone and he was still found guilty.
With something like this, you sort of have to decide whether it's better to have a lot of false alarms (thought guilty when they're actually innocent) or misses (thought innocent when actually guilty). And most countries do prefer to get more misses than false alarms because it's more fair for the people who are falsely accused. Letting someone who is guilty might be unfair to the victim and their families, but keeping innocents in prison is unfair to those falsely accused and their families. And keeping someone in prison doesn't change the fact that a crime has been done, but pronouncing someone guilty will change that person's life significantly, including keeping them from their family and making it difficult for them to get a job in the future. And if they were actually innocent, not only would it be unfair to those falsely accused and their families, it's also unfair to the victims and their families because we wasted time and resources punishing someone who had nothing to do with the tragedies they faced instead of finding out what actually happened.

I guess I'd think about the consequences of missing a perpetrator and consequences of prosecuting an innocent. If a perp goes free,
then they can keep committing crimes and the victim and their family don't get the closure they deserve. If the innocent gets jailed, the perp can still keep committing crimes, the victim and their family "get their closure" and then have to deal with whatever emotions that come their way when the person gets exonerated, be that guilt or disbelief, suspicion, anger, etc., and an innocent person gets their life ruined. So my feeling is that it's worse to have a false alarm than a miss.

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 7th, '17, 13:51    
Moi

Moi

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If someone was caught for murdering a lot of people, they shouldn't be let loose to kill more or flee to different place where they can't be charged.

How old were a lot of those cases where people were innocent despite "evidence"?
I know it still happens, but most of the ones I've seen, were pretty old.
Meaning technology has come a long way, and is better than when they were taken to prison.
They've been able to solve 30 year old murders with the technology we have now.
So it's not like "Well, we found this similar stocking and a gum wrapper! It's YOU!"
And if they do, then it's a travesty of justice and not how it's supposed to work.
And you do have cops planting evidence in this day and age.
But there are many officers and detectives so dedicated to murders, that they continue to work cases, even after they retire.
A lot of people do put work and effort into dealing with murders - especially mass murders.
It's not easy to put all blame one an innocent person.

And murder isn't the same as other crimes to me.
If you get caught selling or having weed, your sentence, if any, shouldn't be no bail.
If you get caught stealing food because you and your family are legit starving, shouldn't be no bail.
If you get caught molesting/raping children, you should not get bail.
If you get caught for murdering people, you should not get bail.
I wouldn't be worried about someone who had weed or someone that stole to feed themselves.
I would be worried about rapists and child molesters and murderers xD

My cousin killed someone in self-defense.
They tried to send him to prison for straight up murder.
He didn't go, though.
It was proven that it was self-defense and not murder.

The system is fucked and not perfect, but it does help a lot of people.
And I understand your point, but I just disagree.
I hope you're not angry 8,u


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"I'll miss the winter
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Hiding in a hollow tree (come find me)
I know you hear me,
I can taste it in your tears."
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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 8th, '17, 04:52    
Sunlight

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If someone was suspected of murder then they should be at least put on house arrest so that they couldn't flee the country, definitely. But if that person wasn't the person who actually committed the murder, then the fact that this innocent person is in jail or not doesn't change the fact that the real murderer is still out there nor does it change the fact that the victim and their family isn't seeing justice; they just think they are.

The most recent exoneration I could find was for a crime that was committed in 2013. And this was for a case that was exonerated. There may be people in jail currently who is innocent who may never be exonerated despite current technology.

In fact, technology isn't all that fool-proof, either. There was a case where this person's DNA was found all over crime scenes across America and it was a great mystery because there was nothing else linking those crimes together... turned out a batch of DNA samples were compromised with the DNA of a worker at the lab. It's not all like CSI where they do magic with technology. It's a very slow process that's not always for sure. Samples get lost, samples aren't usable, they have samples that don't match anyone,
etc. And even if they do match, they can only say it matches X%. It's not a 100% match, either. I believe you only need to match the DNA in 6 places before you can declare it's a match. Now, it's very small chance to have the wrong suspect whose DNA match in those 6 places. But it's not impossible.

Murder is serious and if you committed murder, you should go to jail. But if you haven't committed murder, you shouldn't go to jail.
If I was a victim of a crime like rape, I would want the person who committed that crime to be unable to commit further crimes. But if I were to find out that the person they arrested and found guilty was actually innocent I would be devastated. A person's life was ruined because of me, and the sense of security I may have felt while that person was behind bars was all a lie.
I would be more paranoid than ever because perhaps the person who did that to me is still close to me or my family while I let down my guard thinking that they were behind bars. And I'd feel guilty for feeling happy that that innocent person went to jail.

I'm glad your cousin was found innocent due to self-defense.
If he had been found guilty, I would hope he would have had bail available so that he could come out because it wasn't his fault. It would be frustrating and agonizing to be labeled a murderer and sent to prison, even if more evidence came out later saying you were actually acting in self-defense and not actually guilty. That doesn't give back the time you spent behind bars.

I'm not angry. I just disagree. I don't think locking up people really helps unless the person is going to do it again. And most people don't kill, let alone repeatedly kill. And I think locking up innocent people is worse than no help. I like that the justice system leans more toward giving people benefit of the doubt than locking up anyone who might be guilty just to protect others. Because if that happened, eventually everyone will be in jail and then who'll protect the innocent that's in jail? :qlol:

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 8th, '17, 15:31    
Moi

Moi

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In the end, it still depends. If someone murdered one person or accidentally killed someone or killed in defense, house arrest could work.
But they can always still try to leave.
But when it comes to killing five people or admitting to decapitating someone in front of kids, you shouldn't stay out.

There's tons of people in prison that aren't violent.
I've been hearing of overcrowding, but a lot of people aren't violent in there and could be let out.
Especially when it comes to weed.
Weed is legal in several places, but here you get locked up for it.

It also costs a fuckton to help people while they're in there.
You need to constantly send them money and food and stuff and it costs a lot.

My mom and dad aren't violent people, but that's where they are.
And I think people with drug addiction shouldn't be there unless they did something else.



There's so many issues going on in this country, but people are focused on keep immigrants out and telling legal citizens to leave and bitching about nonsensical things WHILE people are dying and getting thrown away and having to pay a fuckton of money and CRAZY people are roaming free >__>
A lot of police don't know how to handle the mentally ill, shooting people just because, shooting dogs for bullshit reasons.

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"I'll miss the winter
A world of fragile things
Look for me in the white forest
Hiding in a hollow tree (come find me)
I know you hear me,
I can taste it in your tears."
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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 9th, '17, 08:42    
Pandemonium

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Like with the technology to solve crimes, I think it has also improved to help enforce house arrest. They have those ankle bracelets that send police to your location if you leave the house for too long or try to take them off or their batteries drain. I think it'd be difficult to have someone leave the country with something like that.

I agree that there needs to be a better system for non-violent law breakers. But if alcoholism and drug abuse results in violence I think it's good to keep people like that away from public and substances that can turn them, no offense to your mom.

It's easier to blame outsiders because it's a clear target. That's why holocaust happened and that's why the middle east hates America. I've heard someone say something like how "we've been" fighting for a lot longer than America has existed. So why are "we" blaming America? It's easier to blame others than admit that your own system has problems.

The game prize was taken down and replaced due to lack of interest. Please note that the participation fee for this round is higher than usual.

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 9th, '17, 13:07    
Moi

Moi

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I have experience with ankle monitors xD
And they DO see everywhere you go and how long you were there.
However, there's still people that manage to get them off and flee.


I'm of the mindset that if you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you.
I don't care who you are, where you're from, what color you are, what religion you practice.
Of course, I don't condone acts of terrorism or hate crimes.
Of all the people in the US, THOSE people can leave >__>

And what's more irksome is people claiming they were a victim of racism, and they made it all up.
There's been people who made up stories about how people left racist messages on receipt thingies and such.
And since racism is a huge issue, people just assume it's true.
Not everything is about race, but some people just immediately throw it out there.
And people get so caught up in white people being racist, that they're racist towards white people for being racist.
o_____O
It's like "You fucking chocolate eater!! -eats chocolate-"



Also, I understand your point about the no bail and the other person's.
I'm an empathetic person and the world is gray and there's reasons and circumstances for everything.
I know you can't pick and choose the law, but people who accidentally kill or kill in self-defense - they deserve bail.

I saw a story about this man that accidentally shot and killed his daughter.
He thought she was an intruder and shot her in the chest.
And you could literally see the pain and struggle he was going through.
He knows what he did and he will suffer for it the rest of his life.

And I've seen many stories about abused women killing the abuser in self-defense.
I don't think they deserve prison time or anything.


People like that, don't deserve what the people who have no conscience, do.
And I know you can never truly know if someone is remorseful and knows that they did and won't do it again.
But if people show remorse and won't do it again, then I don't think badly of them.

But when it comes to people like the guy that started this, he shouldn't be let loose.
He murdered 5 people, maybe a kid or two, and I think it's a major risk letting someone like that loose.

I've been watching documentaries and real crime shows over the years and there are horrible people that torture and brutally murder people and do ungodly things to them.
I don't want those people to even see the light of day ever again.
And never be let out or out on bond.
They don't deserve to be free.
The people they tortured and brutally murdered don't get to go outside and feel the sun and hear the birds chirp.
The loved ones of the victims can't enjoy life the way they used.
Why should this person get to do that >___>

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"I'll miss the winter
A world of fragile things
Look for me in the white forest
Hiding in a hollow tree (come find me)
I know you hear me,
I can taste it in your tears."
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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 10th, '17, 04:46    
Sunlight

Sunlight

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Nothing really is foolproof. Just like law.

It's sometimes hard to know why some people treat you certain way, and whether it's because of your race or gender. Like, if someone on the bus is rude to you, what have you done to that person other than exist? I can't help but think that's due to my race or gender, especially when that same person's super sweet to another person on the bus.

I can see your point about how some people should get bail and others not, but law is a system that needs to be objective. If we allow people
who are in power to pick and choose based on their feelings of whether this person deserves or is repentant or etc., it could lead to some people abusing their power. It's not very intuitive but morality and law are not always the same and justice and law are not always the same, either.

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 Post subject: Re: The ₡a$i₦o
Posted: Oct 10th, '17, 21:47    
Moi

Moi

Joined: Jun 17th, '08, 21:48
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My dad had an ankle monitor. He left work for a few minutes and ran across the street to get cigarettes.
They knew when he left, where he went, how long he was there.
But it was weird because they were trying to say he did some fuckery, and he was like "8u I was gone for a few minutes, there was no time for anything except buying cigarettes."

People already abuse their power 8u
I've seen so much fuckery in the past 5 years xD
It's really sad.
Yeah, the system will never be perfect, but it royally pisses me off when people don't get what they deserve.
I guess that's why a lot of people believe in God and hope they face what they didn't while alive.

But I also sometimes feel bad for people that did shitty things.
Like this one man was a pedophile/child molester and he got caught on a tv show and he ended up committing suicide.
I felt bad for him, but then it's like "Why? He was a terrible person. I shouldn't feel bad."

I agree with you. I've never had racism directed at me, but it was directed at my dad for being Mexican.
I got to listen to people call him racial slurs and talk shit.
I still hear people talk shit about Mexicans.
I'm proud to be Mexican >>
Also, my bestie for about 13 years was black and she was the nicest, most talented person ever.
But to some people she was just another n word.
And that's not fair. She was a great person that worked hard to get good grades and be good at sports and singing and playing piano.
And what's also sad, is I've hear a black guy say something like "No matter what you do in your life, you'll always just be an n word to some people."
And another guy said "Well, if they expect you to be a thug and lazy, might as well be."


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"I'll miss the winter
A world of fragile things
Look for me in the white forest
Hiding in a hollow tree (come find me)
I know you hear me,
I can taste it in your tears."
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