Lol, cats XD

Yeah, my granny is kind of like that. She fails to see the bad things, like her subconscious refuses to notice them. It's almost child-like, the good will always win. She's also kind of fake because of that, but I can't do anything about it. She just does what she thinks she's expected to do. even when someone hurts her, she's the first one to forgive them. I think it's about religion in her case. Jesus and all that.

Lol, I get insanely lonely and miss my bf when he's not around. I'm literally addicted to him And with him, I don't even feel I need anyone else. He's also very supportive of me in the situation with my sister. He knew everything all along, I just lost all my hope recently and finally believed he's right (although history should've taught me already, he's ALWAYS right At least about people)

Yeah, it's very clear and simple when you think about it, it's weird people don't think about forgiveness as a feeling. I blame Jesus and his cheeky cheeks XD

Well, K would say her childhood was horrible. I would say it wasn't that bad. I mean, my dad is an alcoholic and drug user (though right now I think he's just using some weed and that's it) and mom was drinking with him and she was drugs addict. But when I was about 2, they divorced. K was about 6 then and she remembers more drama than I do. Then they were off and on multiple times, and you know how it is. At the new beginning everythings perfect, then dad hits the wall and starts his drinking again, loses the job he had and mom gets pissed. So she works all day long, then comes back very late and is tired and frustrated and doesn't know how to deal with her daughters being loud or arguing about some petty thing like "the younger one is playing with my doll, I wanted to play with it!", so she screams and hits us, because that's what she knows from her own home and she doesn't know how to stop the cycle she knows is bad.
K was also having trouble at school, and no one had the patience to help her until she finally got it, so I remember mom or grandpa standing over her, yelling, while she was crying that she just can't get that stupid math. Watching this, I learned that I have to try my best at school, so I wouldn't be yelled at. (I still failed a year in high school, but that's not the point here, it's a whole different story )
The things is, she was possessive and weird, but she was/is also very delicate and sensitive inside, and I know that. I have no doubt she actually feels like the victim. The problem is, I could learn from observing her life. She hasn't learned anything from her own experiences. She's just moping over her life. I'm mad at her, because she just sees the tip of her own nose, while she fails to see that mom has truly improved, went to therapy, apologized to her, acknowledged her mistakes in parenting, but even in the past, she was always doing everything for us. Divorcing dad - because he failed to provide for the family. So she had to provide for us. So she wasn't home. And when she was, she couldn't deal with being tired and frustrated and she was relieving herself on us. She knew it was bad then, that's why she went to therapy in the first place. Then she made sure we were taken care of by professional psychologists. My point is, no matter the moments when she was failing, in the end she was trying to be the best mom she could be. She was protecting us from both, the alcoholic dad, the sick home atmosphere, the drug use at home, and also from herself. So I have to give her that, she was an excellent mother. Because let's face it, she's fought so many battles for us, even inside of her, and there are no perfect people, nor perfect mothers. No matter how somebody's mom would seem ideal, I still think my mom did an awesome job. And I'm super hurt my sister is failing to acknowledge all the effort and love and struggle.
My dad, well, I can tell he's changed, he's tired of his own addictions, but he can't bring himself to go to any therapy. He's also struggling a lot. I know he regrets many things he's done. His probem is, he's a dreamer, like an actual dreamer. His head is always somewhere in the clouds. He's a very talented self-taught guitarist, and he's blowing minds of some professional musicians, but he took care of that carreer path a little too late. I wish he wouldn't have listened to my (maternal) grandpa and to his own parents that he can't provide for the family with music. It hurts to see he's still chasing that dream, trying to be more sober.

I just know not all the things they've done were their fault, but a bad cycle. Dad's alcoholism taken from his own father. Though my dad learned that hitting children was something he'd never do, and he never did. Mom's alcoholic family, using drugs to escape the sick, fake atmospehere of her own home, where she's been called a lunatic by her own parents just because she's been going through her normal teenage rebel phase. These aren't environments that support growing into normal, healthy people. they were both broken for many reasons, many thing were outside of their control. Plus they both regret and have shown that. And K, being after therapy, having experienced what she has, should understand that. I don't know why she fails, but it bugs me to no end. She keeps balming everyone, but doesn't reflect on her own actions.

Right now I don't believe in her change. I think she'll stay that way.

I think it's the case of being jealous of all the attentions younger siblings get. It's really hard to watch for the older one, they feel abandoned, so they take revenge on the youngster in any possible way. It's really hard for the parents to make the the older sibling feel like everything's normal, becaue it isn't. Kid just don't get that and sometimes, the jealousy stays with them forever. Like with K. I was fine when I was looking up to her, but when I wanted to borrow somehitng or play with her things: NO, you'll destroy it! Gee, losen your pants, it's just a toy

Oh yeah I miss my boyfriend, like, when he takes a shower or something. XD We spend more time together than any other couple we know (because sadly most couples don't seem to want to be around each other), and still I can't get enough of him.

How long have you guys been together?

It's good he notices stuff about your family that you might not, mine does that too. My childhood wasn't really terrible crap, but I wouldn't call it necessarily good... it sounds similar to yours, like, I wasn't living in fear for my life or anything like that, but there was some definite shit I went through that I shouldn't have, because my parents were immature or just outright wrong.

Small story, not one of the big traumatic ones: I told him once about how I lost my glasses as a teenager (sticking my head out of a friend's car window and they flew off, hah), and my mom got mad and made me spend all my part-time job money paying her the $150 or so they cost... except I didn't get new glasses.

I told that story like it was normal, and at the end my boyfriend was like, "So, wait, she made you buy new glasses?" and I was like, "No... I just paid her back... for the old ones. And didn't have any glasses anymore." Hahaha whaaat! I realized it sounded insane then, because it is. I mean teaching your kid the value of stuff is fine (though I spent hours going up and down that damn street looking until the sun went down so I think I kinda already learned it), but like... I kinda need glasses... to see. So um, weird lesson. XD

Oh Jesus, don't get me started about Jesus! Him and his cheeks, so cheeky. I hate the way he made people all obsessed with an afterlife so they don't live this one, just wasting their time going, "Well this world is crap and we're in for something better later so let's just mope through this garbage to get to the good stuff." What if this IS the good stuff, huh? WHAT IF THERE IS NOTHING ELSE, HUUUUH, THEN YOU WASTED IT!!

I'm uh, not very religion-friendly. <.<

Looool, same, ten minutes can drive me insane, don't even mention 8 hours of work, plus riding to and from, I'm almost dying without him I think we're also spending more time together than any other couple. Maybe because we don't have separate friends (translation: I have one friend, and they like each other, and he has group of friends, I can spend some time with them, too, but we still kinda prefer our own company). And we're both the stay-at-home types.
Wow, we're together for almost 6,5 years I think. How about you?

Yeah, throughout the whole story, he was like "I'm telling you, you'll keep forgiving her, and she'll keep breaking you, and you guys will just pretend nothing happened." And I told him "no, you'll see, she'll change her mind" or "I won't try with her ever again". But after every time he was right I'm just going to stick with my "go be a soulless bitch somewhere else". Cause I'm really tired. Though whenever I run into her, my family pressures me. And it's unfair, because what I've been trying to get out of K, was some apologies for them. So now I'm also done protecting them. Let them do whatever they want, just don't make me sit with her, it ruins me emotionally, mentally and physically, and my bf, too.
BTW, I liked your first post so much I let my bf read it, and he was grinning all the time and then concluded with "well, good for her, she's got a normal approach to life" XD Asherin approved

Lol, I would understand if she made you pay for the new ones, but to just pay her back? That's pretty materialistic and "I don't care if you're blind without them, give me my money back" mean Parents are humans, too, they make very stupid decisions sometimes. Some are just too selfish? I don't know. Just yesterday I was talking with bf, and he told me about his step-dad's brother, whose wife didn't want to give up her "career" and stay home with their kids, while he was making so much more money than she was, yet he was the one to feel bad for not spending more time with the kids, so he gave up that well paid job and stayed home. I mean, it's weird for his wife to want to keep her job, even though it was not so well paid as his, and not let him make more money to provide for the family and she would stay with kids. What's so wrong with staying with your own kids while your husband is making enough amount of money so you could actually stay home? Not that it bugs me that she's not the mother hen or something, I just feel it's pretty natural for the woman to actually want to stay at home with kids, and not for the dad to fell like that. Make me wonder whether she even cares aboutt he kids. If you wanted to focus on your career, why did you make the kids? So you could abandon them? And logistics, it's better to have one person make more money for the family than have one person make less money, right? x.x Maybe I'm the wierd one.

I know! I'm not religious myself. I mean, it's fun to read some theories, but for now we're living here, and we know nothing for sure about any kind of afterlife. Why be so hung up on it? XD And here would be my favorite argument of a catholic person: "You don't understand, it's a matter of faith, you won't understand unless you believe." I'm sorry, darling, you're basically calling me stupid and/or worse than you, while I try to give you logical arguments that make sense. Religion makes you blind to logic. Or to anything for that matter. And you get more judgemental. I don't mind if you believe something, just be a decent person and don't try to convert me "to the good side" and we'll be fine

Mem, you do not owe her, or anyone else, a relationship. Anyone who says "But they're your ____________!" needs to kindly stfu. You are not wrong for wanting to take care of your own well-being. And if that happens to mean that you don't speak to your sister, so be it. You and your own well-being should be your #1 priority.

I speak from experience on this... My sibling (I refuse to call him a brother, because he has not proven himself to be deserving of that title) claims he wants a relationship with me, but then he'll go and come at me with the intention of starting a fight. And act all offended and hurt when I tell him to leave me alone. Because how dare I decide what is best for me? How dare I distance myself from toxic people? *rolls eyes* Anyone who tries to guilt you into staying in a toxic relationship is either naive as hell or willfully ignorant of the effects of toxic relationships.

Hehe, I'm glad your boyfriend liked my post. It's good to have that validation. ;)

Me and my fellow have been together almost seventeen years.

It's a shame we have to have jobs to, like, live, isn't it? If only I won the lottery (that I don't, er... play), then we could stay home all the time. WE COULD GET SEWN TOGETHER MEDICALLY.

Okay maybe that might be going a bit too far. <.<

One of the (many) reasons I don't want kids is that I don't have the time I would want to have to spend with them. Nowadays both parents have to have jobs - sometimes several each - to even support themselves, let alone kids, and the kid ends up, what, left alone or raised by babysitters or something? Ugh no. And I'd probably want to home-school them too, because I think public school is evil garbage, and then the government would put me on a terrorist watch-list, and who wants all that trouble!

Oh I love that "matter of faith" argument. It's so dumb, they're basically saying they can't explain it, and there's no reason or logic, but they don't need that because they just smile and believe it. And you're the one who's supposed to feel like you're missing something when they say it? It's just dumb. DX

It's funny, I think most Christians are more comfortable with people who might be like Buddhist or Hindu or in any way god-following more than a person who's outright atheist. When you're something they can understand it and leave you alone, but when you're nothing it seems to especially upset them and try their faith. Like how could this person possibly exist alone and be happy, how is it possible, IT CAN'T BE THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE WATCHING EVERYTHING WE DO OR ELSE WHY DID I GIVE MONEY TO THAT BUM YESTERDAY??

If I were to pick a religion, Christianity would definitely be pretty low on the list. The Christian god is so mean, man, he's just all petty and jealous and childish and needy. I mean I know PEOPLE who've outgrown jealousy and neediness, but there he is all up in the sky, shouting "LOVE ONLY ME."

*Braces for lightning-strike*

@AutobotDen: Thank you for sharing your experience It's so good to know other people share my point of view, I thought I'd go crazy any minute. Though I'm actually sorry that other people are going through this, too.
My family seems to be very naive about this whole situation. Mom says "no, I haven't forgiven her, and I expect apologies so I'm not going to act normally around her, like everything's fine, and I understand you, but it hurts me to watch it", yet she does act normal around her and tries to convince me to stop being so angry with K -.- #forgivelikeJesusdoes Then my grandma is just all like "nooo, holidays, family, be together, don't fight, you're sisters, I never fought with my sisters, you're being weird, just make up so we can all sit together and smile like idiots". Then my dad goes "she's your only sister and your friend won't replace her, ever". And paternal grandma seems to be more understanding. She actually asks me questions why I'm being like this towards K, and because she has a sister and they've argued on many occasions, she kind of understands me the most.
It all pisses me off that besides my paternal grandma no one tries to actually understand me. Maybe mom tries, but she can't stand it and she's not consistent with her decisions, so it's annoying
They make me feel selfish that I'm trying to take care of myself and also protect my bf from this all, because he doesn't remain unaffected either.

@JosieQ: Wooow, 17 years! That's admireable
Yeah, I hate having the job, it makes me stay apart from my love XD I was trying to apply to his job, so we would work at the same place, but I failed miserably

Right? If you know you won't be able to give the kids your time, it's kind of just having kids for the sake of having them, and then when they're born, "you're on your own now" And it's really hard to find jobs that are well paid, unless you're young (preferably early 20's), with already 10 years of experience on the position and of course with a doctorate -.- #impossibru
Makes me think i's going to be pretty hard for em to have kids I'm not really interested in a career, I'd gladly stay home and raise kids. But with the current situation on job market, it's nearly impossible unless bf gets some more IT experience and then gets a good job. And I could work from home. That would be manageable.
They put home-schooling moms on terrorist watch-list!?

I know, the worst thing is, you can't convince them they're wrong and denying themselves that basic human thing that's logic and reason XD

You're probably right. If someone believes another god, they can kind of understand that. But when you just don't, they go freaking insane I just don't worship anything, doesn't mean I don't believe in something, now go pray someplace else

JosieQ wrote:Like how could this person possibly exist alone and be happy, how is it possible, IT CAN'T BE THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE WATCHING EVERYTHING WE DO OR ELSE WHY DID I GIVE MONEY TO THAT BUM YESTERDAY??

Lol, fake philantropy, love this one, too XD they don't understand that the act should be genuine, not caused by their wish to go to heaven
And I'm really happy exactly BECAUSE I don't need to feel that I'm constantly watched and judged. It's creepy and I've had enough of it in school

I could probably go Buddhist (more of philosophy than religion though). Or Hindu. But I'm prefectly fine with not worshipping any god, even though I may believe there's something out there. Can't really say what or IF I actually believe it. But meh.
I know, the Christian god is sooooo jealous, angry and possessive! But that's also about Islam I think? Or generally the monoteistic religions?

Zeus did a lot of petty stuff that made Hera jealous as heck... Polytheistic deities though... the Greek and Roman Parthenon were filled with badly characterized deities. *Note, this is my opinion, not a fact*

But sometimes, there's the occasional nudge from certain deities... Like how Odin keeps nudging me to be a warrior... but then wanders off when I try to get more details... or Loki just messes with me because it's amusing. Freya isn't nearly as annoying or vague.

Oh, but of course the politheistic religions are full of jealous and angry gods! But they are based off of human behaviors. In monoteistic religions, they tell you that one god is the greates, like perfect and ideal, he has no flaws, the kindest, gracious and forgiving and all kind of "the bestest" stuff, he's pure good and love. But then he wants you to murder other people just because they don't worship him (but remember, he's forgiving ), or he wants some terrible sacrifices from you. You either have to love him or you go to hell. Literal blackmail, where's pure love in that? "god is love", my ass And he watches your every move, what a creep XD
In politheistic religions, you're generally allowed to have more than one deity of worship. Try worshipping Osiris and Jahve at the same time (I mean, I don't think you'd be struck with a lightning, but you know what I mean).

I just generally rather believe in human morality (because I think it's something we are born with, then it gets modified by our upbringing and other stuff) and "get what you give" rule than someone/thing telling me this is wrong and that is good, even though I feel it's the other way around.

Okay, I read through this thread for some reason, and now I feel compelled to write something, even though I probably don't have anything helpful to say.

Your sister does sound like a very hard to get along with person. Yeah, I also got seriously angry when I read the ring part... Generally, a lot of the things you told about leave an angry taste in my mouth. But then again, I saw the story from your perspective, and your writing is not bad, so I don't know how much of that is my own emotion or any kind of objective thing and how much is feeling with you ;)

What mainly made me want to write something though was another thing: I thought it was very moving what you wrote about your mother, not in the first post, but I think somewhere at the top of this page? That she fought hard to be the best mom she could be and how you can love her for that, even if not everything was perfect. I think that is a very thoughtful and mature way of looking at your own parents and it shows that you worked through any issues you might have had from your childhood. (Not that I'm in any way qualified to say that, but it's what it seems like to me.)

Also, I found the conversation about forgiveness being a feeling enlightening as well. I've never really thought about it that way either, at least not consciously. Very fascinating.

There's one thing I'll have to disagree with you about though:

memoriam wrote: Just yesterday I was talking with bf, and he told me about his step-dad's brother, whose wife didn't want to give up her "career" and stay home with their kids, while he was making so much more money than she was, yet he was the one to feel bad for not spending more time with the kids, so he gave up that well paid job and stayed home. I mean, it's weird for his wife to want to keep her job, even though it was not so well paid as his, and not let him make more money to provide for the family and she would stay with kids. What's so wrong with staying with your own kids while your husband is making enough amount of money so you could actually stay home? Not that it bugs me that she's not the mother hen or something, I just feel it's pretty natural for the woman to actually want to stay at home with kids, and not for the dad to fell like that. Make me wonder whether she even cares aboutt he kids. If you wanted to focus on your career, why did you make the kids? So you could abandon them? And logistics, it's better to have one person make more money for the family than have one person make less money, right? x.x Maybe I'm the wierd one.

I think you have no right to judge their choices of family life like that. If he was the one who wanted to spend time with the kids (maybe he was also the one pushing for having them in the first place? Who knows) and she is the one more interested in her career, I think it is the only smart choice to live like this. At least if they can somehow manage it financially. Having more money (because of his higher income), but both of them being unhappy (she about staying at home, he about missing his kids) would be way worse than living on a bit of a tighter budget, imo. I think it's good for them if they managed to break out of typical roles and expectations and make a decision that leaves them happier. And good for them if they actually agreed on it and it's better for both of them, not just a compromise! (Sounds like it, at least)
I also think it is unfair to just expect of a woman to want to be with the kids more than a man. Everyone is unique in that. Plenty of women don't really want kids, or maybe they're okay with having them because their partner wants it, but he is actually the one being more into family things. And that's fine! Dads have as much right to care for their kids and want to be with them as moms, that's completely natural. A mother has no bigger duty to care for the kids than a father.
It can actually be pretty bad for a mother's relationship with her kids if she stays at home even though she never wanted to. Saw that with my ex-bf, his mother never wanted kids, but was the one staying at home also because it was financially smart or sth (iirc, it's been a while) - they had a not very good relationship, and I believe it was partly because she wasn't happy with how her life turned out.

Okay, sorry for this long rant. That wasn't quite my intention...

Thank you for reading and responding And for feeling with me

As for the kids/parenthood stuff: Of course, if it works out, then it's fine. And if it was their decision, it's even better. But for me personally it's weird to stick to her carrier so much, probably because I think I'm the kind to rather stay at home with kids than focus on the carrier. So it's just my personal opinion based on my personal feelings. And I know she's generally a very weird person, so maybe that's why I'm prone to be more judgy. It's just that her way of parenting is something I wouldn't want to do. She's hurting her kids imho (not based on the not staying at home, but other things completely) and she's not a very good wife either. As far as I know she's a very selfish person in general.