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 Post subject: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 15th, '18, 12:28    


JosieQ

Joined: Apr 8th, '10, 09:57
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Hoo boy, what a cheap trick to get your attention! I don't mean it, but it is related to what I'm about to say.

I hate the way men are treated in our society. People talk about misogyny all the time, and I mean all the time, all day every day. We all know how poorly women are treated, just how bad it is for women, oh all the bad bad stuff men do to women while men have it just super!

Now I don't want to get into a debate about who has it worse in our country, men or women, but just to throw a few things out there:

★Did you know that men are 11 times more likely to die in the workplace than women?

★Did you know 99.9% of combat deaths and casualties are men?

★Men are 5 times more likely to commit suicide.

★They're 3 times more likely to be homeless.

★76% of homicides victims are men.

★They have only a 15% chance of winning their children in a custody battle.

★They get more than double the prison sentences than women.

Again, not here to argue who has it worse, I just want to point out that this idea that men have it great while woman have it worse is obviously unfounded.

But mostly this thread is about all the male-bashing that I find so constant, so everywhere, and so repugnant. It's completely acceptable and cool to say "Men are shit" like because, we all know and agree with that right? I think most people don't even notice it anymore, to a conscious level thinking they agree or disagree. It's just there, like a fact in the back of your mind.

But imagine if someone says "Women are shit," as I just did in the subject. You noticed THAT, didn't you? What did you feel? Shock, outrage? Were you ready to come in here and drag me out to hang me in the street?

This kind of dismissal of ALL men as shit (and indeed sometimes they outright say not just "Men are shit" but "ALL men are shit") is just so infuriating to me because obviously, many men are really really awesome, while many women are really, really shit. Humans are great, and humans are shit. I take people on a case-by-case basis, as should everyone, and these "feminist" people (men AND women) who are constantly enraged about anti-female sexism but then just casually and constantly proclaim that ALL men are SHIT, they're the worst kind of hypocrites and they fill me with rage.

I was just watching an episode of "The X-Files" wherein someone has died in a virtual reality first-person-shooter game, shot by a mystery woman who was never programmed into the game. On the way to investigating, Scully said some garbage to Mulder about how lame men are with their testosterone, wanting to play violent games, isn't there enough violence!! (Usually you're so super, Scully, why??) Mulder makes a good point about perhaps it provides an outlet for the natural, biological need to be aggressive in a society that otherwise doesn't allow for it. One good line in an episode of man-bashing, sigh.

(Nevermind the side-issue that for all the "aggression" that a man and only a shows because of course women are never violent and don't play these games, there are 50 women wanting to HAVE that man, because women are attracted to strength and power. That's biology too.)

Turns out, the mystery woman was actually programmed by the lady programmer, for a completely different game. She doesn't know how the character got into THIS game and is killing men. It was for her own game she was making on the side. Scully asks her why she made this "goddess" and the woman says:

"You don't know what it's like, day in and day out, choking in a haze of rampant testosterone."

(Why the fuck are you doing this job making gross male games then, if it's so absolutely repellent and horrible to you?)

Scully replies, "Maybe I do."

It sounds harmless and on-point, casually degrading men and their dirty testosterone, you don't even think of it.

Unless you imagine if we flipped it.

Imagine girls are creating some kinda, I don't even know what this episode thinks girls are into since we scoff at FPS games (which I certainly play)... I guess, imagine they're making a game about unicorns and rainbows and lollipops where no one gets hurt and everyone goes to tea. (Hey actually I'd play that too.) So imagine a guy's working for these women and their pointless stupid female game, and in his free time he makes a super-masculine, gun-toting, murderer and imagine someone asks why and he says, "You don't know what it's like, day in and day out, choking in a haze of rampant estrogen!"

And then imagine Mulder says, with a glance at Scully, "Maybe I do."

That's sexist! Mulder's a piece of shit! We'd be infuriated, we'd storm the studio!

But we can say it against men, because we all agree that men are shit. Ugh I'm so sick of the casual male-bashing. I'm not even a man but I imagine being one, and I'd just... I'd probably have killed myself by now, for real. I can't tolerate it on their behalf, and I'm not even one of them. :mcshout:

One last thing.

Years ago I worked with a guy in his 60s who told me one day that he'd just gone to the supermarket and in the checkout line smiled at a little girl who was staring up at him, and the mother "caught" him and looked all angry and hurried her away.

This was the nicest guy ever, married to his frickin' high school sweetheart for over 40 frickin' years, who had a 20-year-old cat that he loved and was crushed when the cat died and cried right in the office (terrible to watch an old man crying), a man who tried to give me some money when I got laid off from that job. And some bitch woman in a checkout line is making him feel like a scumbag for being a human and smiling at a child.

It was just so sad, to see his kind old face feeling bad about it, feeling dirty, just for being a man. I wanted to find that woman and punch her with all my female-powered anger. I thought only men got angry and violent...?

Of course I'm not saying we should trust everyone and give our kids over to anyone who smiles at them, I'm just saying let's stop causally insulting men, okay? Let's stop this "Men are shit" stuff that we do without even thinking about what it means and how bad it really is. A lot of guys today have heard this all their lives, drilled into their heads that they are garbage, and they're the ones saying it now, because they just believe it. "We are shit," they say, knowing it is a fact of life. They feel guilty all day every day for how they were born, even when they're nice guys. They believe it now, so many of them, they really believe they're shit even when they're not. Look at what we've done to them. Imagine it being PC and okay for men to say all the time "Women are shit" and growing up with that. :mcgloom:

Go hug a guy today. He doesn't have it as easy as you think he does.

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 20th, '18, 17:26    


Anime

Joined: Jul 8th, '09, 23:07
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I agree 100% The story you related about your older coworker was very sad!
Also I think the way Judge Kavanaugh was treated during the hearing was awful.
I think men often have it harder than women. :mcsad:

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 21st, '18, 10:13    


Hitomi-no-Tsubasa

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I thought I was the only one with this opinion and never said anything about it, but oh my goodness I agree with everything you said, and I'm a girl myself. I despise the way men are thought of in this day and age. We an an entire race, as humans, are all supposed to be equal, but really it seems like women/feminists are really taking advantage of the rights that actual Equal Rights movement revolutionists fought so hard for while also subtly stomping on the rights of men in this era for the actions of the past, almost in a petty, childish revenge type of way, and if you say something about it, you get labeled as a misogynist and a sexist piece of garbage.

I also see it in today's media as well. A lot of female villains are never held responsible for their crimes and are usually allowed to get away with it and it's usually the fault of someone (usually a male) or something else. They are never allowed to be evil jerkwads for the sake of being evil jerkwads even though women are more than capable, just like men. Like you said, women can get just as angry and violent as men, they just don't want to admit it. I won't even go into the shows that have men acting like idiots while the girls are smart, strong, and perfect with no flaws. Or the shows that treat their male characters overall like trash. The fact that these messages are in cartoons and even video games irk me to no end.

God forbid if you try flipping it on them as well, like how a lot of women hate the sexy calendars men usually have, screaming about how they sexualize women, but then go on to read a steamy romance novel with a guy named Fabio on the cover that almost always has perfect hair, strong face and body, and muscles that pop out of an unbuttoned shirt.

I wish I could write so much more, but my thoughts are jumbled from no sleep.

I feel so bad for your coworker. He sounds like an awsome guy who deserves everything amazing that the world has to offer.

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 22nd, '18, 10:52    


JosieQ

Joined: Apr 8th, '10, 09:57
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@Anime

Ugh, I know! I didn't see the hearings but I did hear he was treated non-objectively and like garbage. I feel like if anyone even says "This guy did (blank)" then people just believe it without even thinking about it, or asking for evidence, or anything. It's just "Well of course he did, whoever he is, men are evil!" :mcangry:
Hitomi-no-Tsubasa wrote:I won't even go into the shows that have men acting like idiots while the girls are smart, strong, and perfect with no flaws. Or the shows that treat their male characters overall like trash. The fact that these messages are in cartoons and even video games irk me to no end.
Oh yes, I noticed this growing up as a kid and it irritated me even then! Men the dumb idiots all derping around while women just float there all wise, mysterious, all-knowing goddesses, patiently putting up with those dumb, dumb, idiot fellas. :mcmeh: Nowadays they don't even get to be dumb and strong, they're dumb and weak and it's the women opening the jars with men saying "Hur hur I loosened it though." Can't even throw them THAT bone? Nope, woman's got to have literally all and man has to have literally nothing.
Hitomi-no-Tsubasa wrote:God forbid if you try flipping it on them as well, like how a lot of women hate the sexy calendars men usually have, screaming about how they sexualize women, but then go on to read a steamy romance novel with a guy named Fabio on the cover that almost always has perfect hair, strong face and body, and muscles that pop out of an unbuttoned shirt.
Ugh I just saw something (can't remember what) where women "dropped" something so their hot male waiter had to pick it up, and they're all "Mmm look at that behind" and the laugh-track's all ha-ha-ha look at them objectify that man, but if it was guys they'd have gotten some kind of immediate cosmic punishment for it. :mcgloom:

That reminds me of this hilarious thing though:

Image

:mclaugh:

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 24th, '18, 01:53    


Moi

Joined: Jun 17th, '08, 21:48
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I've been seeing lately that men aren't in trouble if they didn't actually do anything to a woman.
Which isn't true.
There's been a lot of men that got sentences and they didn't commit the crime at all.
"If you're not guilty, you'll be fine!" or "If you never did it, you don't have to worry!"
I've been watching true crime things since I was a kid.
I know for a fact that men have been put in prison for crimes against women they never committed.
So no. You're not totally safe.
And once you're accused and do jail time - even if you didn't do anything - your record is permanently tainted.

I've been seeing women also say that no woman would ever make up sexual assault or rape.
Really? There's been women that killed their own children because they didn't want the father to get any kind of custody.
You'd think they'd never lie about anything?
I don't think you should ignore women speaking up, but you also shouldn't just believe everything everyone says.

Going back to my history with true crime stuff - women can be pure evil.
There's been female serial killers.
They've done horrible things.
Women aren't incapable of evil.

Also the whole manspreading thing is stupid.
I sit like that. I'm not a man.
And most people, if you ask, will make room for you.
Unless they're an asshole.
And not just men can be assholes.


I've seen a lot of women complain about females in fiction wearing skimpy clothes and how it's not fair.
They're right. I demand male characters in thongs too >8u

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"I'll miss the winter
A world of fragile things
Look for me in the white forest
Hiding in a hollow tree (come find me)
I know you hear me,
I can taste it in your tears."



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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Oct 27th, '18, 04:37    


Yokuutsu

Joined: Aug 12th, '10, 04:35
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Men have always had more power than women, in the beginning. Look at things...men ruled the world and some are taught that just because they're a guy they deserve this and that, which is their parents' fault to some extent and maybe their social surroundings as well.

Women used to be property by virtue of being women. Same as some races in places that had/have slavery.

Does that mean all or even most men are shit? No. Would I have clicked on this title if you said men were shit? Probably because I'd be curious on WHY.

But some men and women are shit. It's part of the human condition really. Bad apples in every single 'group' we make be with race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.

On to your facts:
★Did you know that men are 11 times more likely to die in the workplace than women?
Did you know men are more likely to take dangerous jobs compared to women? Including ones that include power tools and heights, or as the case of a friend's husband, those things plus acid and many other fun things.
(Note: Assume the most, not all obviously)
★Did you know 99.9% of combat deaths and casualties are men?
Did you know in the US that they wouldn't let women fight for the longest time? For many years they were only allowed to be nurses/medics. Also, in general, there are more men in combat than women, though the number of women is growing and should be more than .1%

Also, I would like to see the source on that one to go look at everything.
★Men are 5 times more likely to commit suicide.
I think this one is misleading. Men succeed at suicide more often through using more violent ways, such as a gun....whereas women tend to choose other means like pills....so they're more likely to be saved from a suicide attempt.
★76% of homicides victims are men.

★They have only a 15% chance of winning their children in a custody battle.

★They get more than double the prison sentences than women.
I want sources.

That is beginning to change (custody)

I want that source too. You may have a credible source for all I know, but plenty of people will use any source they can find. Which if you want sources, I will go get them for you.


In conclusion: People are shit.

XD

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I am so far behind on castle quests.

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Nov 12th, '18, 09:30    


AutobotDen

Joined: Apr 28th, '12, 07:41
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Yokuutsu wrote:
In conclusion: People are shit.

XD
Where's the lie? On my one gaming discord, we had to ban one guy for his sexist and misgyonistic ranting because he was also showing signs of being a neo-nazi edgelord. one of the server's main rules is "Don't be a dick" and one of the other main rules is "This is a safe, inclusive place for everyone, don't make it not be that way." and he broke both of those within 7 days.

now, most of the people we've had to ban (less than 10 in a 500+ member server, if that says anything about the server itself) have been men. We've had a few women who refused to play by our rules, but the majority of the bans have been to guys.

Yesterday, I got into an argument with a guy who refused to accept that it is not the sole responsibility of women if a pregnancy occurs. I won't go into details, but let's just say I would've had better luck discussing politics with my 62-year-old, Apathetic-to-Politics, stubborn, father.

I have encountered toxic masculinity in fandoms I participate in (Star Wars and Transformers), and guys who have tried to push women out of the fandom by being disgusting examples of humanity. I have also seen how He-Man and Superman and Batman are male power fantasies.

Women's erotica is less about the physical strength and prowess of the man and more about the man being able to emphasize with the main woman in the story, and being more gentle and tender with her (I read a LOT of trashy Harlequin-esque novels in high school, to the point that I had four boxes of them when I left for college). The men depicted tend to have very expressive faces, gentle eyes, and are less the muscly body-builder shapes that men's fiction depicts as the "ideal".

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Nov 12th, '18, 23:54    


JosieQ

Joined: Apr 8th, '10, 09:57
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@AutobotDen

So your contention is, then, that men are worse than women? Just as, like, a general rule?

A few notes on your post.
Yesterday, I got into an argument with a guy who refused to accept that it is not the sole responsibility of women if a pregnancy occurs.
And yet, it is.

I'm a full supporter of abortion, absolutely, what the woman wants the woman should get.

But it still makes me very sad to see the man pushed aside in this. Some men really want a child and think abortion is murder, but do they have a say if a woman wants to abort what is HIS partial creation? None at all.

I'm not saying of course that a man should be able to force a woman to have a child she doesn't want. If I got pregnant and the man begged me to have it I'd absolutely say "Fuck you no" and have the thing sucked right outta me with not even the slightest concern what he wanted.

Okay I personally would show concern, I'm not an asshole in that way. But there's really absolutely nothing he could say to convince me to have it, nothing.

And that's what's so sad about it. Imagine if you had a hand in starting a life, and you wanted to love and raise that life, and you were faced with mocking "Who do you think you are this is MY body" when you tried to express that? (In fact, I daresay if you showed that much interest in having a child, you would be seen as a creepy pedo with ulterior motives, because ew what man wants a baby ewww.)

Ah yes but if she has the baby, after taking what he wanted into account not at all, then it's all "Well where's the money you did this to me!"

As to gaming and fandoms, they are still heavily men, so yeah if there are more men in the room then obviously there will be more male assholes. That's just a numbers game.

But yes, men are more genetically aggressive. This is why I said previously that for all the aggression a man shows there are 50 women wanting to HAVE that man, not "For every man that is aggressive, there is a female equally aggressive."

Because of course yes, to protect the family in nature and get the food, naturally you have to be aggressive. It's nature for a male bird to attack other birds in his territory, but we don't say "Male birds are shit!" It's their nature, the strong survive. It's hard to find an outlet for this nature in the "civilized" world, and we are instead told that we don't need nature and nature and biology and hormones are irrelevant, and dear god can't you just unnaturally work at McDonald's all day and then NOT be angry and aggressive while you deny everything evolution is telling you to want??

At least when they are allowed to create, men tend not to be violent jackholes. There's the outlet the world doesn't allow with all its service jobs being the only jobs now.

...

As I just attempted to type all that, the stray cat I'm fostering (the only male cat in the house) just walked back in front of me, sat his balls repeatedly on my arm to get attention, and then bit me in the face when I moved him gently out of the way.

It wasn't a hard bite but still NO. BAD BOY.

Isn't that just like a man, using his junk and then violence to get attention!

Haaa.

Anyway, to sum up, my argument isn't that men aren't worse in some areas than women. It's that woman are equally horrible in completely different aspects. Nature (and fathers who are still much, much harder on sons than daughters) is constantly telling men to fight and get resources and protect the home, to be MEN. The lack of actually DOING what nature demands can understandably push them into being monsters, because living with duality and contradiction is maddening. It's no mystery why when the whole civilized world is set against them, telling them to ignore nature and also be a man at the same time, that they show up on gaming sites acting like absolute dicks.

But what's nature telling women? To stay in the safety of the cave and protect the babies. Is this why they spend 90% of their time disparaging others, other women usually, ruthlessly mocking the coworker behind her back who wears too much eye-makeup? Is this why they love love love to see women fail and be humiliated?

At least bad male behavior makes sense to me. It's coming from somewhere you can measure and deal with and prevent. It's the woman-type of awful behavior that I find absolutely baffling and senseless. A man might want to destroy a man so he can take his stuff or eliminate a threat, but a woman seems to want to destroy a woman just for the sheer hilarity of it. :mcmeh:

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Dec 10th, '18, 16:53    


Lycanthus

Joined: May 9th, '16, 11:49
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But what's nature telling women? To stay in the safety of the cave and protect the babies. Is this why they spend 90% of their time disparaging others, other women usually, ruthlessly mocking the coworker behind her back who wears too much eye-makeup? Is this why they love love love to see women fail and be humiliated?
as someone born with a vagina, i have never in my life have been interested nor have i ever personally engaged or even witnessed this nature to a large degree. like, at the very most my mother would tell me i should wear this or that, but this kind of pettiness i think is more telling of the people/culture you're around rather than anything to do with sex/gender.

literally none of my female friends are like this. and i think a lot of people can attest to the same thing. i think you're attributing the traits of a specific type of people to gender when it's probably much more likely that these women you're around are raised/socialized to be a certain way.

i grew up in my dad's shadow and could've cared less about makeup. i can count the number of times i've used makeup on half of one hand. i don't care about gossip. i don't care about any of these mean girls-esque things that honestly seem really, really cliche. occasionally people tell me this was their highschool experience, all the clique nonsense and whatnot, but... i, personally, didn't even know such things existed until after i graduated highschool.

i suppose it's worth mentioning that i identify as transgender, so maybe that has something to do with it. but that doesn't account for the rest of the women in my life who... do not fit your idea of womanhood whatsoever.

but i also disagree on a second count: that men don't gossip, which i think is the implication you're going for here. it looks different than the way women tend to do it, sure, but if i had a nickel for every complaint my boyfriend has ever uttered about one of his friends, i would have amassed a small fortune. my boyfriend aside, my other male friends do the same thing. it's... not really all that different from what women do in my opinion, just stronger language is involved.

i mean, have you ever been on an anonymous image board like 4chan? that's pretty much peak male gossip culture right there.
At least bad male behavior makes sense to me. It's coming from somewhere you can measure and deal with and prevent. It's the woman-type of awful behavior that I find absolutely baffling and senseless. A man might want to destroy a man so he can take his stuff or eliminate a threat, but a woman seems to want to destroy a woman just for the sheer hilarity of it.
i'm failing to see the logic here.
A man might want to destroy a man so he can take his stuff or eliminate a threat.
can you please explain this in the context of mass shootings? partner homicides? because the only two things i currently understand as falling under "taking stuff" and "eliminating a threat" are theft and self defense, which do not account for all of the violent crimes committed largely by men.

i don't think that men are "worse," i think they're merely socialized to respond with violence first because society disallows/shames them for seeking help and expressing their emotions in a non-violent way. that much i completely agree with. however, you lose me when you speak of comparing these respective forms of 'destruction' as you say. you need to clarify what 'destruction' means here, because as it stands i'm not seeing a 1:1 correlation.

what i'm assuming you mean is that violence action that men take to "secure" their safety and belongings is comparable to women... gossiping? i don't... understand why you're comparing these two things at all. i think a more defensible take would be to compare violent crimes perpetrated by women, because women do perpetrate violent crimes. they just do so in different ways due to being socialized a certain way or lacking easy access to weapons (firearms for example.)

additionally, you speak of 'prevention' but i don't understand what it is you mean to prevent.
a woman seems to want to destroy a woman just for the sheer hilarity of it.
i disagree. it's all power dynamics.
i think gossiping and whatnot is inherently stupid, but if there's anything i've learned from watching dumb internet drama, it's that there's a method to the madness— or at least a reason. because women are socialized to be more social, rely more on others and be more attuned to emotions, the locus of control and power is in their connections and relationships with others. taking the whole "men are genetically stronger than women" thing into account, this is a far more effective way to instate order and control when you don't have brute force to do it.

you plant seeds of doubt, you create rifts, you break people apart, then you can assume control by manipulating others to your side. trust is power. it's just politics on a smaller scale if you ask me.

==

anyway, i was going to address your opening post eventually so i guess now is as good a time as any. yokuutsu pointed out most of it already, but i wanted to add my own thoughts as well.

you didn't happen to watch the red pill, did you?
i only briefly perused a summary of the major points in it but a quick google matches your bullet points almost one for one. not that it's relevant, i'm just curious.
Women Are Shit.
Hoo boy, what a cheap trick to get your attention! I don't mean it, but it is related to what I'm about to say.
i fail to see the point in opening with such a contentious title if your goal is to actually have a discussion about the issue. all this accomplishes is automatically putting people on-guard if they disagree with your statements.
★Did you know that men are 11 times more likely to die in the workplace than women?
i'm going to end up repeating what yokuutsu said, but men disproportionately take on high risk jobs. you will rarely find women in such fields because society and women themselves think that women cannot handle dangerous jobs that require high amounts of physical labor. so, more men in dangerous fields = more men die. it's as you said in reference to toxic gamer communities— it's a numbers game.

and with the rest of the points, it's the same case.

i think this article does a good job of skimming the issue:
https://www.investors.com/politics/comm ... death-gap/
  • In 2015, for example, there were 4,836 workplace deaths, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Of those, 4,492 were men, and 344 were women. In other words, men suffered 93% of workplace fatalities that year. This wasn't some aberration. From 2011 through 2015, men accounted for 92.5% of all workplace deaths.
so, you're right, men are more likely to die from workplace accidents. but you fail to go a step further:
  • This huge gap has nothing to do with discrimination, of course. It has everything to do with the type of jobs men and women voluntarily choose to take.

    In a chart on his blog, Perry notes that the most dangerous professions — logging, fishing, pilots, roofers, garbage collectors, and so on — are all dominated by men. Low-risk occupations — administrative support, health care, education — tend to be dominated by women.
these are voluntary choices made by men and women alike, because we're socialized to believe different types of jobs are "gendered." men are rewarded by society by risking their lives for "manhood" which makes them more likely to take on such dangerous jobs, while women will often be belittled and mocked for attempting to join a male-dominated field. this even happens in non-dangerous jobs, particularly in STEM fields which are male-dominated but with a growing percentage of women entering. i have many, many friends in the game development industry who can attest to this.
★Did you know 99.9% of combat deaths and casualties are men?
https://diversity.defense.gov/LinkClick ... ortalid=51

this document is from the office for diversity, equity, and inclusion, which is a government agency in the US. i've copied the chart on page 2 for your convenience.

https://i.gyazo.com/1c12ad083ca25de5a4f ... ef20d1.png

men are disproportionately represented in the army, shown in blue. so, naturally, if most of the military is male, most of the casualties will also be male. i feel like this one's pretty cut and dry, unless you have a counterpoint.
★Men are 5 times more likely to commit suicide.
men are less likely to seek help before it's too late. this all leads back to the concept of "toxic masculinity" in which society teaches men it's bad to appear weak, bad to show emotion, bad to need help. i don't know what your point was supposed to prove? that men have it worse than women? because this particular point doesn't really prove anything without going into the reasoning as to why this happens.

expanding on what yoku mentioned about completed suicide: i went and googled a little and found this tidbit from harvard:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matt ... facts/how/
  • How do People Most Commonly Complete Suicide?

    More use a firearm (52%) than every other method combined. Suffocation (mostly hanging) accounts for 23%, poisoning/overdose for 18%, jumps 2%, cuts 2%, and other 4%.

    Most nonfatal self-harm treated in the emergency department results from poisoning/overdose (64%), followed by cutting (19%). Less than 1% of nonfatal attempts are with a gun.
now, the source link on that page is broken, so i went and found an interactive infograph maintained by the centers of disease control and prevention, another government agency.

https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/
you can input the same criteria as me to double check, but here's the two screenshots i wanted to bring up:

suicides by females, organized by mechanism of death:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

suicides by males, organized by mechanism of death:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

so this is what yoku said:
I think this one is misleading. Men succeed at suicide more often through using more violent ways, such as a gun....whereas women tend to choose other means like pills....so they're more likely to be saved from a suicide attempt.
according to the data provided, this matches up.
★76% of homicides victims are men.
this article is from an international agency (i've been trying to keep to US-specific sources) but i think it does a good job of kind of summarizing what's really going on with homicides holistically rather than taking one statistic out of context.

https://www.heuni.fi/material/attachmen ... Gender.pdf

i'm not particularly well versed in this issue (well, none of these really) but maybe this article might shed some light on the context surrounding homicides: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10. ... .2017.0016
  • For the past four decades, nearly threefourths
    of all homicides have exclusively involved men.
    About 90% of all perpetrators are male, and about 81% of
    their victims are male.
so, my point is that yes, mostly men are being killed by homicide, but men are also committing more homicide period.
  • Moreover, 78% of the victims of
    female offenders are also male.
not to ignore this, i'll take a quote from the article's abstract because i'm really tired.
  • According to Steffensmeier and Allan (1996, pp. 480), “For women to kill, they generally must see their situation as life-threatening, as affecting the physical or emotional well-being of themselves or their children.” Overall, it is often noted that males and females tend to see the utility of violence in radically different ways. Whereas men tend to employ violence as an offensive move to establish superiority, women typically view violence as a defense of last resort.
just to be clear, these statistics aren't overarching facts, but rather what was gathered in this particular study. without the context and source for most of your claims, it's pretty hard for me to believe them to be accurate, especially when i'm not being given additional information to explain why the percentages are what they are.


i'm gonna cut it here for now, but i'll probably be back later to do research on the last two points you mentioned.

to be perfectly clear, i for one don't even fully disagree with some your points, because i think that toxic masculinity does make men suffer. but overall it honestly feels like you're trying to refute this strawman of an ideology that most people actually believe that "all men are shit."
This kind of dismissal of ALL men as shit (and indeed sometimes they outright say not just "Men are shit" but "ALL men are shit") is just so infuriating to me because obviously, many men are really really awesome, while many women are really, really shit. Humans are great, and humans are shit. I take people on a case-by-case basis, as should everyone, and these "feminist" people (men AND women) who are constantly enraged about anti-female sexism but then just casually and constantly proclaim that ALL men are SHIT, they're the worst kind of hypocrites and they fill me with rage.
you're setting up this argument based on something that is clearly not defensible, because generalized sweeping statements like this are never defensible by nature. i'd be VERY hard pressed to call anyone who sincerely believes all men are shit a good person, but on that same token i don't think a lot of these points you've made really delve into the meat of the issues they scarcely skim over.
Imagine girls are creating some kinda, I don't even know what this episode thinks girls are into since we scoff at FPS games (which I certainly play)... I guess, imagine they're making a game about unicorns and rainbows and lollipops where no one gets hurt and everyone goes to tea. (Hey actually I'd play that too.) So imagine a guy's working for these women and their pointless stupid female game, and in his free time he makes a super-masculine, gun-toting, murderer and imagine someone asks why and he says, "You don't know what it's like, day in and day out, choking in a haze of rampant estrogen!"
i take issue with one particular little bit from here.
So imagine a guy's working for these women and their pointless stupid female game
what about a "female game" is pointless and stupid?
is it the inclusion of "unicorns and rainbows and lollipops"?
why are these things "stupid" and "pointless"?

games are supposed to be fun. that is the entire point of games. they are pieces of entertainment, so by definition they are all pointless because they do not aid us in survival in any way.

why is it that "female games" are stupid?
what even makes a game a "female" game?
what about unicorns, rainbows, and lollipops makes them inherently gendered to be feminine?
are men not allowed to like these things?
isn't that idea contributing more to to hurting men by deeming certain "feminine" things as stupid?
what if a man out there just really likes unicorns and rainbows?
where does he stand in all this?
and then, what makes guns and violence less pointless and stupid than a game about cooking, marketed for girls?
like... what is even your metric for quality here?

i am so, so confused. as someone born with a vagina, i've never been interested in "female" games. i love bloodborne, i love the darksouls series, i love a lot of the same things guys love. games aren't gendered, they're games? any anyone can enjoy a game. they don't even require being physically fit. if anything, more girls should be playing video games if we're using biology as an excuse here.

furthermore, i think the snapshot you've provided don't account for the status of women in other parts of the world. i'm american-born chinese/khmer, and even being in a western country i had to face sexist confucianism in my daily life. men do this, women do that. such rigid gender roles are part of the reason why i'm trans, because the way i act and the way i see myself do not align with this archaic idea of what femininity is. i'm personally all for men being sensitive and women punching things, because that is what equality is to me.

anyway, i'll be discussing this post with my boyfriend and my (male) best friend, since they partake in masculine culture on a daily basis. it'll be interesting to see what they have to say about all this.

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 Post subject: Re: Women Are Shit.
Posted: Dec 10th, '18, 20:51    


Sanssouci

Joined: Jun 29th, '14, 02:58
Posts: 3718
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Location: New York
Feminists are people who want equal rights for everyone regardless of sex or gender.

Women's rights get a bit more attention simply because, overall, our rights are still trailing behind men's rights. So women's rights, overall, need a little more focus in order for the two to be equal. But most feminists acknowledge that men do get the short end of the stick sometimes too and will fight for men's right too when needed.

For example, most feminists think it's wrong to make a man feel bad for showing emotion, or crying, or liking cats, or liking pink, or liking dolls, etc. And most feminists will fight for a man's rights to do those things.

Barbie has gotten more attention than He-Man because:

#1 Barbie is more popular

#2 Some men actually do look like He-Man. Not many obviously. But some do. Whereas Barbie's proportions are not even human.

#3 There isn't nearly as much pressure for a man to look like He-Man as there is for a woman to look like Barbie.

Feminists are the reason why women are considered people, not property. They are the reason women can vote. They are the reason that women can own property. They are the reason we can get an education. Etc. But those things still don't even apply everywhere in the world. There are still a lot of places where women have far fewer rights than men do. So I think we still desperately need feminism, and I don't think it makes much sense to blame, bash, or make fun of it.

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